Central Lutheran Church - Elk River
Central Lutheran Church - Elk River
Science and Faith: A Cosmic Dialogue {Reflections}
Is the universe finely tuned for life, or is it all just a cosmic coincidence? Join us as we challenge conventional wisdom and explore the intricate fine-tuning argument for the existence of God. Our journey through the universe's precise calibration takes us through the cosmic constants like the electromagnetic force, strong nuclear force, and gravitational force, which are crucial to the existence of life. With insights from renowned figures like Stephen Hawking, we ponder whether such precision points to a divine creator, using the compelling analogy of a soundboard where the tiniest adjustment could destroy life's delicate harmony.
In the search for answers, we entertain the possibility of a super intellect orchestrating the universe's fundamental elements—physics, chemistry, and biology—to foster life. Could this be what many call God? By reflecting on the thoughts of brilliant scientists, we examine the rationality behind acknowledging such an intellect, arriving at a point where science and belief might coincide. This episode offers not just a thought-provoking argument for believers, but also an invitation to share these insights with those curious about the intersection of science, philosophy, and faith.
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What is up everybody? My name is Ryan and I want to welcome you to our Reflections podcast. I'm here in studio with Mike Lauer. What's up, mike? He said not much. We call this Mike's Beats Laboratory, or I do anyway, but this is the studio.
Speaker 1:So, hey, we are in a series here examining and exploring these arguments for God. Does God exist? Are we rational and reasonable people to believe in a God, or is it more reasonable to believe that nothing exists, there is no God? And there's all these wonderful arguments that examine sort of our existence as humans and kind of even from the scientific to the philosophical, that argue for why it's reasonable to believe in God. Last week we talked about the cosmological argument for God and this week I want to tell you guys about one that's called. It's got a few different names, but it's called the fine-tuning argument or the Goldilocks argument not too hot, not too cold, but just right. It's also sometimes called a teleological argument, but if you Google the fine-tuning argument, you'll be able to find it. But here's what it says. It says as you look at life, when you look at life around you, like look around your room or wherever you are right now, life seems pretty stable, like in my room right now. I've got some filing cabinets here, mike is in the chair, his computer is working, things seem pretty stable, but it's only because there are all these forces that you can't see, that exist in nature, that are interacting with each other in very specific ways, that allow for life to exist. So imagine if you would like a soundboard with all these dials on it and they're all tuned just exactly right and they're all tuned to the right number or frequency or whatever. And all of them and some scientists argue that there's about 50 of these invisible fundamental forces, they also call them cosmic constants. And so they're like all these dials tuned exactly right. And if they were tuned a little bit stronger or weaker, life as we know it wouldn't even be possible, and so everything has to be just right for galaxies and planets and our life to form. So this is the fine tuning argument the Goldilocks, because everything is just right.
Speaker 1:So there's this great thinker. He's a scientist, he's an author and thinker and he's actually a professed atheist, but his name is Stephen Hawking and he says it this way. It's incredible. He says the laws of science as we know them at present contain many fundamental numbers, like the size of the electric charge of the electron and the ratio of the masses of the proton and electron. This is a bunch of scientific jargon here, but the remarkable fact, he says the remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to have been finely adjusted to make possible the development of life. I mean, he's arguing for this fine-tuning argument and I would ask him yeah, I would agree. He says the remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers have been finally adjusted to make life possible. So I'd ask him yeah, great. Well, who adjusted those numbers to be just right for life to exist? This is an argument for God. Now, okay, put on your thinking caps for just a couple minutes, or just you know, you can zone out. But here's four examples Actually I'll do three examples of some cosmic constants, these forces at work that are allowing for life to, to interplay or to exist, and you can google, just google cosmic constants, or invisible forces that allow for life to exist.
Speaker 1:So the first one is the electromagnetic force constant. Now here's the deal. Imagine this is one of the dials, one of the 50 dials, and if it was just a little bit stronger, then chemical bonding in the world would be disrupted which allows for life. If it was a tad weaker, then chemical bonding would be insufficient for life chemistry, life wouldn't exist. And when I say slightly stronger or slightly weaker I mean slightly. So the number, the percentage of slightly stronger or weaker, is 1 over 10 to the 40th percent. So think of that. That's a tiny number, a tiny amount, a sliver. And if it was slightly tuned higher or lower, then there'd be no way for life to exist, just with this one cosmic force, cosmic constant alone, that's the electromagnetic force constant Okay. Another one is called the strong nuclear force constant Same thing. Electromagnetic force constant okay. Another one is called the strong nuclear force constant same thing. If even slightly altered by the amount of 1 over 10 to the 40th power percent. That tiny sliver in amount, if that dial is just barely bumped, then if it was, if it was bumped larger or higher, no hydrogen would form. Smaller than no elements heavier than hydrogen would form and there'd be no life chemistry at all in the world. So the strong nuclear force constant that's in at work, allowing for life to be stable and exist, if it was just bumped a tiny bit, no life.
Speaker 1:The last one, I'll say the third one is the gravitational force, constant again, if slightly altered, one in 10, 1 over 10 to the 40th power percent. That tiny amount, if it was stronger than stars, would be too hot and they would burn too quickly and unevenly. No life would exist. If something weaker, if this knob was dialed just to the, you know the lower end, by just again a sliver of an amount, then stars would be too cool to ignite nuclear fusion. So life would be impossible. This is an incredible I, the fact that 50 of these dials are tuned exactly right. How does this happen? Is it reasonable to look at this like hey, something some divine, brilliant, creative being tuned these things just right. Now, here's exactly how small the sliver of an amount is. It's 1 over 10 to the 40th power percent. Here's how small that number is and the sliver of how much. You could turn these dials either way and life would not exist.
Speaker 1:Imagine covering the US with dimes. You lay out all these dimes. That covers the entire continent of the US. Now, that's a lot of dimes right Now stack more dimes on top of those dimes to the height of the moon. So imagine this country covered with dimes that then stack upwards to reach the moon, which is about 239,000 miles away on average. Now, that's a lot of dimes. Even more dimes right Now. Multiply that number of dimes times 1 billion, that's even more. That's a lot of dimes, you guys, I'm just telling you. I'm not a mathematician, but it's a lot of dimes.
Speaker 1:Now take one dime out of that pot of dimes and put an X on it and then fling that dime into the pile of other dimes, now, bringing someone into the room who's been blindfolded, and have them choose a random dime. The odds of them choosing that one dime that I drew at Exxon is 1 over 10 to the 40th power. That is a small, small, infinitesimal number. And those dials are tuned exactly right for life to exist. And if you tilt those dials that small number of a percentage amount, life would not exist. And if you tilt those dials, that small number of a percentage amount, life would not exist. So here's the question then, with all this evidence suggesting that, like this, is incredibly rare for all these dials to be exactly just as they are and life exists, what do we make of that? What can we deduce or conclude? Well, many of us have said well, there's probably a omnipotent being that has done this. We call that person God.
Speaker 1:Imagine this story in real life playing out. If you had a die, a single die, and you were to roll that die, what are the odds that you would roll the number three? No, it'd be one in six. You had a one in six chance of rolling a three. Now roll it again and let's let's say you got a three in that first roll. What would be the odds of rolling two threes in a row? Well, it gets even rarer, right, less less rare. It'd be one in 36 rolls. Now, how about three threes in a row? It's actually one in 216 is very low odds. Imagine rolling six threes in a row. Like that's incredibly rare, that's one in 46,656.
Speaker 1:If you go to vegas, if, mike, if you go to vegas dude, you and you somehow were able to roll six threes in a row, do you know what they would do to you? They'd kick you out of there because they would assume bro has some loaded dice or bro's cheating somehow, and that's only one in 46,000. They would assume that there was some kind of an intelligence involved, that you rigged the system, that you somehow manipulated the roles to get to your optimum role, and that's with only six rolls. Now imagine if you had a die, not with six sides, but one in 40 to our I'm sorry, one in 10 to the 40th, that many sides, and you roll the number. You know 1,500, just one time. That would be one in four. Your chances would be one in 10 to the 40th power. Now imagine doing that and rolling that same number 50 times in a row. I mean, there's just no way we would be foolish to not at least consider some kind of intelligent being that has dialed all these dials exactly right. It's unreasonable to think. I mean, well, I guess it's not unreasonable, but it would be extremely rare to just assume that this is all done by chance or happenstance.
Speaker 1:So Mike and I learned about this guy this morning. His name is Sir Fred Hoyle. He's an astronomer. This guy formulated the theory of stellar nucleosynthesis, which sounds important. I don't know what that means exactly, but it sounds important. But here's what he says. He's an incredibly brilliant thinker, but he writes this.
Speaker 1:A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a super intellect has monkeyed with the physics as well as the chemistry and biology of the world. The numbers that one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion beyond question. This guy's a brilliant scientist and he's like hey, look, somebody, something, some super intellect has monkeyed with the physics I love how he puts that, has tinkered with these dials, with the chemistry, the biology, the physics and all of it in order for life to exist. And I would say I could not agree more with him, and even Stephen Hawking and to me. I think that that super intellect is what we call God. Okay, there you go.
Speaker 1:So if you believe in God, you're not crazy. There's lots of very valid reasons. Hey, there's got to be something behind this thing, and I think it's God. Okay, let me know what you think. Bless you guys, love you. We'll talk to you soon. Hey, if you enjoy this show, I'd love to have you share it with some friends. And don't forget, you are always welcome to join us in person at Central in Elk River at 830, which is our liturgical gathering, or at 10 o'clock, our modern gathering, or you can check us out online at clcelkriverorg Peace.
