But If Not with Sonja Knutson

A king demands worship, the music plays, and an entire empire bows on cue, but three teenagers stay standing. Sonja Knutson walks us through Daniel 3 and the fiery furnace with a focus on the words that expose the difference between cultural Christianity and resilient trust: “But if not.” God can deliver, heal, restore, and provide, but our worship cannot be a deal we offer only when life goes our way.

We talk about pressure to conform, the subtle ways compromise looks “reasonable,” and why Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego aren’t being difficult, they’re being faithful. From Nebuchadnezzar’s rage to the astonishing moment of a fourth figure in the fire, we explore what it means to believe God is present even when he doesn’t prevent the furnace. Along the way, we name the trap of transactional faith and replace it with a trust rooted in God’s character, not our outcomes.

We also connect the story to everyday trials with scriptures on suffering, endurance, and hope, and we sit with a hard question: why doesn’t God stop our fires before they feel seven times hotter? One of the most hopeful takeaways is that the fire burns the ropes, not the people, a picture of God freeing us from what binds us. We close with a real-life testimony of persevering faith and an honest prompt to name your own “but if not” moment. If this encouraged you, subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find the Daniel series and walk it with us.

Join us!   Facebook   |   Instagram   |   www.clcelkriver.org

Transcript

Welcome And Pastoral Care

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Do this. All right. Well, my name is Sonia Knutz and I'm Pastoria Associate here at Central. It's a privilege to work with this team. If you did not know, and if you're new, maybe visiting here, Pastor Ryan, our lead pastor, is on sabbatical this summer. So if you have any pastoral needs at all, please see myself, Ben, or Kirsten or anyone on our team. We would love to come alongside you and love on you just as well as Pastor Ryan does. So he's doing doing great. He's resting well. He's reflecting well. He's spending a lot of time with his family and Jesus. And that's that's what sabbatical is all about. And so we are glad that he is off doing his thing with God. So continue to pray for him. We are

Pattern To Promise Series Recap

SPEAKER_00 0:36

in week three of our Daniel series that Ben kicked off earlier this month. And this series is called Pattern to Promise that expresses this idea. We good, Chris. That expresses this idea that our human behavior moves often in poor choices, in poor patterns. But through our faith, God is able to bring us back into his promises, which I think is such a beautiful idea. The poor patterns of our lives can be transformed by the promises of God. Put that on a bumper stick and sell it, right? If you have not been following along so far, we are in the book of Daniel from the Old Testament, which was also written by Daniel. It takes place during the Babylonian exile from the years 605 BC to about approximately 538 BC. And it's about the people of Judah who had been conquered and taken from their homeland into the southern kingdom from the southern kingdom of Israel. As a whole, this book follows the experiences of the Jewish refugees in Babylon, who remained faithful to God despite intense pressures as they were walking through this difficult time. So far, we have walked through chapters one and two with Pastor Ben. And in those chapters, we have met our four main characters: Daniel, Hananiah, Michelle, and Azrah, better known to us by their Babylonian names, which were Belthesar, Shadrach, Meshach, and Bednego. In chapter one, we heard of their strength to not give in to the king's demands and this idea in new culture, the power of the king, which was fascinating if you consider the ages of these young men. Now, when they were taken from their captive into captivity, we kind of estimate that they were maybe between 10 and 15 years old. And yet they did not let the power of the king control them. In chapter two, last week, Ben shared about King Nebuchadnezzar's troubling dream of building a statue. Daniel interpreted as the rise and fall of the earthly kingdoms and God's kingdom that will never be destroyed. And Ben challenged us to ask ourselves daily, how do we respond to what God is doing in our lives? Today we're going to move into Daniel 3, this very well-known story of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the fire. Who's familiar with it? Yeah, it's like one of the top 10 Bible stories, isn't it? And this morning I've titled the sermon, But if not, I'm already running behind on my slides. There you go. Which I consider, but if not, some of the most powerful words in our faith that come from this story. So if you want to follow along, go ahead and find the story on page 719 in your Black Bible. We're going to be going walking through pretty much verse by verse. So please take that out. But also I'm going to have the slides available to you. And let's begin this morning in prayer. Father,

Prayer And Life In Exile

SPEAKER_00 3:22

as we think about our faith and how often we wander away from it when times are hard. I love that you place these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abendigo, in our lives to model, even in their young age, what it means to stand firm in our faith, what it means to trust in you, what it means to worship you in all circumstances of our lives. This morning I ask that this message is your message and that you use it as a vessel into hearts and minds that are open this morning to challenging their own faith. We love you, Jesus. In your name we pray. Amen. Well, imagine living in ancient Babylon around 590-ish BC. You're a young teenager and you've been taken from your home and you're living in exile, and everything around you is new, all of the beliefs, a new culture. You've been given a new name, a new language, and you're asked to follow new gods. The city of Babylon is booming. There's gold everywhere, massive walls, hanging gardens, music in the streets. And King Nebuchadnezzar is basically the ruler of the biggest superpower on earth. In fact, if Babylon had social media, his account bio would probably say, King of kings, builder of nations, definitely not taking suggestions. And one day during his powerful reign, he decides to build a giant golden statue. Now Daniel 2 just warned him not to do that. Daniel was saying, Don't do that. This fireball that we read about in Daniel 2 is going to come and destroy that, which is telling you your earthly kingdom will be destroyed, and only God's kingdom will come out of this. But greed and power take over. And

The Statue Command And The Threat

SPEAKER_00 5:01

we read in verse 1 of Daniel 3 on 7.19, it starts with Nebuchadnezzar made a golden statue whose height was 60 cubits and whose width was 60 cubits. He set it up on the plain of Dirah in the province of Babylon. Now that approximately is about 90 feet tall, just to give you an idea of how large this is and comparable to the Tower of Pisa, which my kids used to call the Tower of Pisa when they were little. It represents his big ego, right? He then sends for the leaders, the sastraps, the per prefects, the governors, the counselors, the treasures, the justices, the magistrates. These were all the high-ranking military and civil officials of the time. And he calls them to assemble and dedicate the statue that he built. He then tells them, starting in verse 4, You are commanded, O peoples, nations, and languages, that when you hear the sounds of the horn, the pipe, the lyre, the tregon, the harp, the drum, the entire musical ensemble, you are to fall down and worship the golden statue that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up. Whoever does not fall down and worship shall immediately be thrown into the furnace of the blazing fire. Now, seriously, what did Ben tell us last week? This guy has anger problems, right? We need anger management classes for him. Last week he's gonna pull you apart limb by limb if you don't follow him. And this week, if you don't bow down to this statue, he's going to throw you in the fiery furnace. But then enters our heroes, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abendjigo. But if you know them best as we do in our family by the Vegetales, we call them Rack Shack and Benny. Who remembers veggie tales? It's coming back. So excited about it. These young men knew Babylon's message was simple. It said, just compromise a little bit. Everyone else is bowing down, government officials are bowing down, business leaders are bowing down, but Rack Shack and Benny go against the grain and they refuse to bend. Can you imagine the awkward nurse of the defiance? The soldiers are saying, Hey guys, the music started playing. Just bow down. They're like, no, we're good. And like, but do you see the big fiery furnace over here? Nope. Again, we're good. And of course, because there's one in every crowd, a guy stands up to tattle on him. And in verse 12, we find a shaldeen, which is a wise man or a magician, comes forward to the king and says, There are certain Jews whom you have appointed over the affairs of the province of Babylon, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. These pay no heed to you, O king. They do not serve your gods, and they do not worship the golden statue that you have set up. Basically, they're tattling and they're telling him they are rebelling against you. But this wasn't rebellion. This was unwavering devotion. These men aren't being difficult. They were being faithful because they knew the commandment. They knew the Torah. Number one on the charts of the commandments is you shall have no other God before me. They knew the Exodus story and how people had been saved because of their faithfulness. And here's what I love about the response to the king that Richard read for us this morning. O Nebuchadnezzar, we have no need to present a defense to you on this matter. If our God, whom we serve, is able to deliver us from the furnace of blazing fire, and out of your hand, O king, let him deliver us. But if not, be it known, O King, that we will not serve your gods and we will not worship the golden statue that you have set up. Think about that for a moment. These men are fifteen to twenty years old. They stood up to a king and a fire, and they said no. What were you doing when you were fifteen, sixteen, eighteen, twenty years old? They didn't panic, they didn't protest, they didn't rant or post angry comments. They simply stood before the most powerful king in the world and they declared, Our God whom we serve is able to deliver us. But if not, we will not serve your God. But if not. Well, their refusal was reported to King Nebuchadnezzar. The king gives them one last chance. Come on, guys, just bow down. We can do this together. And once again they respectfully say, No, thank you. Enraged and most likely embarrassed, Nebuchadnezzar orders the furnace seven times hotter and tells the soldiers to bind the three men and throw them into the flames. The fire is so intense that it kills the very soldiers carrying out the order, and everything appears lost. But then the story takes an unexpected turn as Daniel writes, Then King Nebuchadnezzar was astonished and rose up quickly. Did we not throw three men bound into this fire? And they answered, Certainly, O king. He said, But I see four men unbound, walking in the middle of the fire, and they are not hurt. And the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods. And Nebuchadnezzar then praised the God of Israel because he delivered his faithful servants, and he demanded all to worship again and bow down. But if you don't, I'm going to tear you limb by limb once again. The end.

The Miracle Before The Miracle

SPEAKER_00 10:14

It's a great story, isn't it? And often as we read this story and we think about it, we highlight the miracle of the men that survived the fire. But I believe the miracle inside the miracle is the depth of the faith of these men. The faith before the fire, the faith in the fire, and the faith after the fire. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego lived in a culture that demanded conformity. Everyone bowed because it was easier, it was safer, it was socially acceptable. But these three understood that worship belongs to God and God alone, not a 90-foot statue representing human power or political power. Their worship wasn't aimed towards public opinion or comfort or even success, as ours tends to be, nor was it transactional. It was based on who God is, which is true faith, a faith that stands when everyone else bows down, a faith that starts before a fire. And that is where this story can challenge me at times. Because too often my faith becomes transactional. And maybe yours does too. It stands strong when our prayers are working and where they're answered, or the diagnosis comes back clear, or when the relationship heals and life makes sense, then it's easy to stand like Rakshak and Benny. But when our fires get hot and when the sky is falling, when the outcome looks hopeless, or our prayers and faith can then tend to shrink a bit. But biblical faith says something different. Biblical faith says that this kind of faith is not believing God will always do what I want, but rather believing God is worthy of my trust, no matter what he does or doesn't do, which is the faith that these young men were living in. It's a but if not kind of faith. Remember those words? But if not. These young men said to the king, if our God is able to save us, he will, but if not, we will still worship our God. That's powerful. And it's trusting no matter the circumstance. And that is the kind of the God faith in our world today that says, I know you can heal me, but if not, I will still worship you. It says, I know you can restore this marriage, but if not, I will still follow you. It says, I know you can provide, but if not, I will trust you. I know you can remove this suffering, but if not, you are still a good, good God.

When Faith Stops Being A Deal

SPEAKER_00 13:01

You know, when I hear this phrase, but if not, it's not always in the best light. Sometimes it's used to manipulate situations. I often think of it as passive-aggressive conversations. And maybe you've heard them. I'd love for you to come and help me move, but if not, I guess I'll figure it out on my own. Or I'd love for my family to spend more time with me, but if not, I'll be fine. Don't worry about it. Or perhaps you've thought of this phrase, but if not, like in a backup plan. Recently, our three-year-old granddaughter stayed with us and she's already learned the power of, but if not. Hey, Papa, can I have ice cream? But if not, can I have a cookie instead? This is the same three-year-old that asked me the other day when my phone was ringing, are you gonna get that, Nana? I'm like, no, I'm playing with you. My time with you is too important. She said, that's okay. It's probably potential spam anyway. True story. For Shadrach, Meshach, and Abendigo. But if not, wasn't a backup plan and it wasn't used passively, aggressively. It was the deepest expression of faith, one that doesn't disappear when life gets hard, but rather a faith that states, no matter what, I will worship you because God, you are worth it. That kind of faith, friends, cannot be shaken because it does, it isn't built on outcomes. It's built on a relationship, a relationship with a God that lived and died in a trust and faith so deep, he himself said to his father, Take my cup while he was waiting to die. He was waiting to go to the cross. He said, I don't want to suffer. Take my cup. But if not, Father, thy will be done in my life. And that is the faith that we as his followers should live and trust in when our fires heat up. Amen.

What Scripture Promises About Trials

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Because faith doesn't guarantee an escape from our fires. In fact, our faith, we are promised fires and trials. John 16 reads, In this world you will have trouble, but take heart. I have overcome the world. First Peter reads, Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you. Romans 5 reads, We rejoice in our sufferings. Think of that. We rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that sufferings produce endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope. And in James 1, I love James, he says, Count it all joy when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. So we are to expect, just as these three young men in our story, fires and trials in our lives, and we are to trust our God through it all. Because here's the beautiful irony. The men who were willing to die in that fire through their faith became the men who walked free in it. Those that died were the men that bowed to the king. But Shakrach and Benny, they walked free even after the furnace heated seven times hotter than expectations. Because when the fire came for them, God showed up as he always does. Go back to verse 25. It reads, But I see four men unbound. King Nebuchadnezzar was saying this, I see four men unbound walking in the middle of the fire, and they are not hurt. And the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods, which may be confusing for us at times to hear and to think about. Why did God even let them go in the furnace? Why didn't he stop the king and the soldiers from throwing them in? And for that matter, why doesn't he stop our fires and extinguish our flames before they feel seven times hotter? Well, sometimes God rescues from the fire, and sometimes God rescues through the fire. And I would go as far as to say sometimes, sometimes the furnace becomes the place where we experience his presence most clearly. Either way, our God never abandons his people. And when you live and know that truth, you know then and understand the depth of his love for us, especially in our trials, and especially in the things that tie us down that are not of God.

Freedom In The Fire And Kathy’s Story

SPEAKER_00 17:22

In our story, the only thing that was burnt were the ropes, were the things that were binding these men. And how telling is that of our own lives. When we trust and live in our faith, then we too can be free from our bondage, our addictions, our pride, our insecurities, our sins, our guilt, the things that have a hold on us and block us from his love. But when we give it all to God, it no longer ties us up. It no longer has a hold on us. I have a dear friend here at Central who was so courageously and vulnerable to share her story at the Good Friday service this year. If you've never been to a Central Good Friday service, I highly recommend it. It's a time when we share the seven last words of Jesus and we ask seven members of this congregation to share their testimonies. Tell us where you see God in his life. How has God changed you? How has he met you? And this friend, her name is Kathy, and she gave me permission to share this story, has lived a life of fires that seem to never be extinguished. From the loss of loved ones, all different ages, to struggling to make ends meet, to broken relationships. In her short life, she has been marked with heartache, but not defined because that would give the enemy power over her. In fact, as she shared at the Good Friday service, many people that know her, that knew her, had no idea of the path that she had walked because she refuses to live in her hardship. Don't hear me wrong, there's been many coffees that have shared tears and shaking our fist at God and questioning why are these things happening. But she also sees and trusts God in all of it. And she has the confidence that God will shine in every situation, maybe not the way she desires, but she will still give him the glory. And that type of faith, my friends, is the highest expiration, uh expression of confidence in God's control, not our control, but God's control. It is a faith that rests not in changing circumstances, but in the unchanging character of God, and such a faith refuses to bow. It remains steadfast in the furnace and ultimately bears witness to the God who is always present with his people. And that kind of faith terrifies the enemy. In our story today, Babylon understood power, Babylon understood fear, but Babylon did not understand people who could not be bought or pressured or intimidated, nor does the world we live in today, and it too is terrified of a faith that pushes back and says, but if not.

Your But If Not Question

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Central, what is your but if not faith today? Is it in the place where your faith moves beyond expectation and into surrender? Does it say, I know what I want God to do, but my worship is not dependent on getting my way? Or is your faith conditional and transactional based on your desires and control or your struggles and your fears? Friends, maybe today you feel like you're in a fire. A diagnosis has hit, an unexpected death has hit, family stress, disappointment, uncertainty, grief, broken relationships, general pressure. Maybe you're like me and you're carrying burdens of sorrow and hurts, and that just seemed to linger, and you wonder when are these flames finally going to die out? If so, I challenge you to live in this story and the faith of these young men who were freed, because it was a faith that stood before, during, and after a fire. It was a faith that stands when the music plays and the pressure rises, and it is a faith that understands that sometimes the greatest testimony is not avoiding the fire, it's walking through it with God by your side. Amen.